Hi all, noobie here. I'm in long island, ny, converting from oil to gas heat. interested in using alpine mod/con boiler. Not sure if it's the right one for me, considering, I have practically no access to direct venting of combustion gas except for a ss lined chimney currently in use.Looking for the most efficient boiler offered by national grid. Need your expert advise on the pros cons of this particular boiler, suggestions, recommendation on other boilers. thanks.
I had an Alpine 105 installed last summer 2011 in an oil to gas conversion. Total cost of old boiler and tank romoval, piping to gas stove and all equipment to install boiler wass $8100, plus $800 to National Greed. So far could not be happier. Super quiet, had it install on the wall which freed up the entire boiler room. The ODR adjusts the supply temp that I hardly know it is on. Now the best part. My old setup used avg 600 gallons of oil to heat and $300 in propane to cook. Domestic hot water is electric. My total cost of nat gas to cook and heat was $750.20 for the period of 6/11 to 6/12. That figures at $3.75 per gallon at $2250.00 and $300.00 to cook = $2550.00. That is a true savings of $1800 in the first year. Won't take long to pay off. Besides I got rid of the 67 year old oil tank which was just waiting to leak.
Great report, but you also need to factor in the cost of annual maintenance and periodic replacement of failed parts over the years. That will be a significant number.
OP, you need to consider efficiency balanced with long term maintenance and repair costs. The latter differ widely among models and types of technology. Simply getting one because it carries the highest efficiency rating under the most ideal conditions you many not always encounter is short changing yourself.
Check your cycle times.
Might be able to save you more money.
Touch the status button and on the right side of the screen about midpoint between top and bottom is a right arrow head.
Press that multiple times until you see hours and cycles.
What are those numbers?
I hope the boiler was warranty registered, if so you have a 5 year parts and labor warranty.
Rbeck, yes it was warranty registered and I received verifcation from the warrant admin. I had my first of the 5 required service/inspections performed in september.
I figure after the 5 years is up I will just do it myself.
Here are the numbers you wanted. 1807 hours with 11675 cycles.
Here is my set up
2 zones, 1 with 40 feet of baseboard in an addition added onto my 1500 sf cape which we spend most of our time , and the other zone is the 1500 sf cape with in wall convectors, insulated, new windows and doors
You are actually doing better than most. Your minimum average run time is 9.2 minutes which is about half of what it should be. Most I experience is 2 -3 minutes minimum average run time.
Does this boiler heat an indirect water heater? Are you using the outdoor reset feature. The longer these boilers run the more efficient they run.
The way to maximize efficiency with mod/con boilers is longer run times at minimum water temperatures, not using night setback and turning boost feature off.
Your heat loss is probably 55k or less by quick rule of thumb calculation. You can reduce fan speeds to reduce input, take time to fine tune ODR settings.
Right on with the heat loss, 51K with the slantfin app.
I have a seperate electric water heater. The boost feature is turned on and set to the longest wait time. I must say when that water temp hits 190f it feels pretty darn good on a cold day.
When using the smaller zone, the diff between supply and return temps drop to about 12 deg or so after about 5 minutes. I thought 20 was the rule of thumb. In the main house zone the return temp stays closer to 20 for a longer period.
As far as the night setback, we like to sleep in a cool house and the settings are 66 day and 61 night. On colder nights the boost comes on well before the tstat is satisfied. I guess I could raise the night temp to 63.
As I stated you are doing better than most. I would drop the input by reducing the central heat maximum rpm's and try to increase the run time.
Bear in mind that ODR will save more money than night setback. The lower the night setback the harder and more time to recover. I would drop the rpm's and increase the run time. If you decide to do this make a note of the run time and cycles as the cannot be reset. Your note will be the new starting point.
I suggest you keep night setback to 2 - 3 degrees if at all.
I just worked with another Alpine user and we went from 3 minute run times and occasional lockout on temperature to 60 minute run times and no lock outs.
I would take to down to about 3000 rpm's and fine tune from there. Also adjust the ODR to find the right settings of min water temp, low boiler temp. Set the low outdoor air temp to design for your area.
rbeck
The only rpm's I see adjustable are the modulation. Is this the setting you are referring to? It is currently set to 4850. What would the reduced number do as an advantage?
I set the boost to zero, which disables the boost feature.
ODR is set to max 70, low 9
These are the other settings
central heat 180
diff above 10
diff below 5
-
low boiler water temp 110.
min boiler temp 130
That central heat max rpm's is under the modulation menu. Changing the max rpm's will limit the input. why input 105,000 btu's when your heatloss is only 55k? I would set the max rpm's for heating to 3000rpm's. remember if you do this to press the check mark o save the change. You can always take it up later if need to. This does not affect the water temperature just how fast you get there. The advantage is slower temperature climb, improved modulation, higher efficiency, longer run times.
Just a reminder the lower the night setback the longer recovery time.
I would change the diff above to 2 and below around 10.
rbeck, did you notice the minimum boiler temp of 130? Shouldn't that be much lower?
Droo, the 130 is the minimum set point I believe.
Exactly my point. The Alpine can handle temps much much lower. Why is the lowest set point only 130? I don't even think you are condensing at that temp.
Droo, that setting is dependent on the type of radiation...from the I/O manual
Minimum Boiler Temperature
The Minimum Boiler Temperature parameter sets a low limit for the Reset setpoint. Set this
parameter to the lowest supply water temperature that will provide enough heat for the type
radiation used to function properly. Always consider the type of radiation when adjusting this
parameter.
Tags: alpine, boilers, night setback, boiler temp, boost feature, central heat, type radiation, water temp, 1500 cape, average time, better than
